Tuesday, May 25, 2010

Quote: Violence & Discipline

Dark Den includes a strong theme of male Dominance and female submission. Can we call that classic D/s? This theme is delicious for me. Of course, it's far from the only combination of power exchange. For example, I'm bi, and I'm a shade switch.

Many of the best quotes about D/s are about classic D/s. For example, the novels of Gor offer many inspiring and steamy quotable assertions. Unfortunately, these quotes are often buried in the otherwise ponderous and lame writing. Thank the gods for the fans who have labored through the novels, and put the best stuff on the web. I stopped after book 5.

Today's quote isn't from Gor. It's from Clan of the Cave Bear. My beloved primary describes the sequel, Valley of the Horses, as a strong, early influence on her sexuality. To better understand my beloved, I'm going to read Valley. I'm starting with Clan.

Any quote has limited value, especially taken out of context. But nevertheless, a really good quote can make me go, "Ohhhhh yes. Just so." Here is today's quote:

A man did not prove his manhood, in Brun's opinion, by overcoming women. Women had no alternative but to submit. It was unworthy of a man to pit himself against a lesser adversary or to allow his emotions to be provoked by a woman. It was a man's duty to command women, to maintain discipline, to hunt and provide, to control his emotions, and to show no sign of pain when he was suffering. A woman might be cuffed if she was lazy or disrespectful, but not in anger and not with joy, only to discipline. -Clan of the Cave Bear, p.66


  1. The Dark Den may be considered a strong theme of male dominance and female submission for many but there are just as numerous other points of view. The DD means so much more to most than just another boring DS or BDSM sim lacking in texture or depth, it is enriched by other features from colourful characters and their roleplays through to virtues such as friendship, harmony, love of nature and love itself.

    The quote provided lacks any aspect of respect, love or consideration which many desire and seek, and seems more suited to the more stoic sims. For some interesting non-fiction thoughts which may help explain differing views on D/S thoughout the DD see


    (and yes I do know the article is about Take-in-Hand, but this is what many believe rl DS to be)

  2. A lot of effort went into creating Dark Den as an open role play sim with the theme of a country in the bermuda triangle with a corrupt government. This is not a BDSM sim. It is also not a gorean sim. The GM is used for the purpose of assisting the role play of a capture. There are dominant males (Sir Sin, Kandr) and there are also dominant females here Miss Lucky, Miss Cara).
    My character needs the open format because she has no clue what D/s is nor is she particularly motivated to get involved with it. She finds it funny that that some of the women refer to themselves in the 3rd person.

    The truth is the female is stronger than the male in many respects and is capable of giving birth. The female gathers food in many species while the male sits on its ass. A man wrote the gorean books so guess who the submissives were. Men wrote the Bible so Eve took the wrap.
    Women can be dominant, males can be submissive. In Glint dominants can be captured and "forced" to serve.
    The important thing to remember is that both sides of the role play must be having fun!

  3. Sir is correct in that there IS a strong theme of "classic" Male/female D/s present in Glint.

    Moose and Tami are also correct, I believe, in saying that there are examples of variance from that "classic." I do not say "variance from the norm" because I strongly agree with Moose that the sim has been, and should be, open for all sorts.

    I would hope that we can foster more "variance" going forward -- and that no matter where one is in their personal journey, they can fit in, have fun, and add to the community.

    If we ever go to "all females are sub" and "all males are Dom", we will be the losers.

  4. I have often thought of what many perceive to be perhaps the 'classic' or 'natural' order of things, which is perceived as men being the dominant factor with women yields as the submissive in the equation. There is that feel of the man being the provider, and the woman gathering and nurturing.

    I am not sure where I was going with all that, except to say, that even in nature, there is variety, and I value that myself from what the 'norm' might be. I definitely do appreciate the male dom and female submissive side of things, but I do believe in the old edict of 'live and let live' I suppose in regards to many things in life, including D/S. Many paths to the same mountain.

    I haven't really started role playing in Dark Den yet, and have just been observing here and there. It does look to be an interesting place though. =)

  5. Hmmmm... How is it again with lions? The females organizing the daily busyness, including the hunting, the male tolerated, placated, mostly there for creating offspring, rogue males on the fringe trying to catch a stray female...
    Maybe it felt a bit like that, in the Den, when I first peeked in.
    OK, it was not the whole picture, but it wasn't a bad atmosphere.

  6. Oh, that reaction was evoked by the 'natural order of things' remark.

  7. Ah, while lions did cross my mind at one point, I was referring more to the concept of the 'natural order' for human beings. I am not saying that I am one to go with the 'natural order' concept, but I have noted that we humans are a very hierarchical sort.

  8. It must be the association of Dark Den with Lion's Den.
    The facts of history may speak against me, but it doesn't feel self evident to me that men should rule. Maybe we are in a transitional period in human society. By the very nature of it being pre-history, it will be hard to proof wether those societies knew matriarchies or not.
    Maybe the political prowess of men came from them having too much free time on hand while the women were doing the 'real' work.
    Anyway... what I wanted to say is that when I feel submissive to a person, her/his gender isn't the reason. And that is why it feels so unnatural to me that the members of the Sisterhood should submit to any man, well, any of the Elite that is. Don't get me wrong, I understand that is likely to be exactly what the sisters are looking for, and fair play to them. And though I feel very much at home in Nayeli, and did enjoy it when the no-clothing rule was in effect, the Hood is not for me.
    Hmmm.. I think I completely drifted off topic.